Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/02/1993 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
April 2, 1993
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SB 53: "An Act relating to payment for abortions under
Medicaid and general relief medical assistance;
annulling changes made by certain regulations
adopted by the Department of Health and Social
Services relating to funding of abortion services
under the general relief medical program."
PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS ON
RECONSIDERATION
HB 148: "An Act exempting the University of Alaska from
the administrative adjudication provisions of the
Administrative Procedures Act; and providing for
an effective date."
PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
HB 210: "An Act relating to employment of chief school
administrators."
HEARD - NO ACTION
HB 195: "An Act authorizing youth courts by which to
provide for peer adjudication of minors who have
allegedly committed violations of state or
municipal laws, renaming the community legal
assistance grant fund and amending the purposes
for which grants may be made from that fund in
order to provide financial assistance for
organizations and initial operation of youth
courts, and relating to young adult advisory
panels in the superior court."
PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
REP. GENE THERRIAULT
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 421
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: (907) 465-4794
Position statement: Prime sponsor of HB 148
MIKE KELLY, Member
Board of Regents
University of Alaska
P.O. Box 71249
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707-1249
Position statement: Testified in support of HB 148
CAROLYNE WALLACE, Administrative Assistant
University of Alaska, Fairbanks
4057 Mallard Way
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: (907) 479-4081
Position statement: Testified in support of HB 148
BONNIE WILLIAMS, President
Statewide Administration Assembly;
Director of Advanced College Tuition
University of Alaska, Fairbanks
1335 Sunny Slope Rd.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: (907) 455-6652
Position statement: Testified in support of HB 148
WENDY REDMAN
Vice President for University Relations
University of Alaska
910 Yukon Drive
Fairbanks, Alaska 99775-2388
Phone: (907) 474-6302
Position statement: Answered questions on HB 148
TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Aide
Rep. Terry Martin
State Capitol, Room 411
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: (907) 465-3783
Position statement: Represented prime sponsor of HB 210
CARL ROSE, Executive Director
Association of Alaska School Boards
316 W. 11th St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 586-1083
Position statement: Testified in opposition to HB 210
LEO MORGAN, President
Kuspuk School District
Aniak, Alaska 99557
Position statement: Testified in opposition to HB 210
PAULA TERREL, Legislative Aide
Rep. Joe Sitton
Alaska State Legislature
Courthouse, Room 609
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 465-2327
Position statement: Testified in support of HB 195
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 53
SHORT TITLE: ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS
BILL VERSION: CSSB 53(FIN) AM(EFD FLD)
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
TITLE: "An Act relating to payment for abortions under
Medicaid and general relief medical assistance; annulling
changes made by certain regulations adopted by the
Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding
of abortion services under the general relief medical
program."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 122 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 122 (S) HES, JUD, FINANCE
01/27/93 (S) HES AT 01:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
01/27/93 (S) MINUTE(HES)
01/29/93 187 (S) HES RPT 4DP 1NR 1DNP
01/29/93 187 (S) FISCAL NOTES PUBLISHED (DHSS-5)
02/10/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/10/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
02/24/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/24/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
02/25/93 481 (S) JUD RPT 1DP 2DP W/AM 2DNP
02/25/93 481 (S) PREVIOUS FNS (DHSS-5)
02/25/93 487 (S) FIN WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING
NOTICE,RULE 23
02/26/93 499 (S) FIN RPT CS 4DP 2DNP
NEW TITLE
02/26/93 499 (S) PREVIOUS FNS APPLY TO CS
(DHSS-5)
02/26/93 (S) FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE
518
02/26/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
02/26/93 (S) RLS AT 01:15 PM FAHRENKAMP 203
02/26/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
03/02/93 575 (S) MOTION TO CALENDAR 3/3/93 FLD
Y8 N11 E1
03/03/93 589 (S) RULES RPT 2/CALENDAR 1/OTHER
REC 3/3/93
03/03/93 590 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
03/03/93 591 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED Y13 N5 E1 A1
03/03/93 592 (S) AM NO 1 ADOPTED Y11 N8 E1
03/03/93 592 (S) ADVANCE TO 3RD RDG FAILED Y13
N6 E1
03/03/93 592 (S) THIRD READING 3/5 CALENDAR
03/05/93 634 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
53(FIN) AM
03/05/93 635 (S) PASSED Y12 N6 E2
03/05/93 635 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y12
N6 E2
03/05/93 635 (S) Duncan NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
03/08/93 658 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD
READING
03/08/93 659 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
UNAN CONS
03/08/93 672 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y13
N6 E1
03/08/93 672 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y13 N6 E1
03/08/93 677 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/10/93 582 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/10/93 582 (H) L&C, HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/23/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/25/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/25/93 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/26/93 791 (H) L&C RPT 3DP 2DNP 2NR
03/26/93 791 (H) DP: WILLIAMS, PORTER, SITTON
03/26/93 791 (H) DNP: GREEN, MULDER
03/26/93 791 (H) NR: HUDSON, MACKIE
03/26/93 791 (H) -5 PREVIOUS SENATE FNS(DHS)
1/29/93
03/26/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/26/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/01/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
BILL: HB 148
SHORT TITLE: EXEMPT U OF AK FROM APA PROCEDURES
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Davies
TITLE: "An Act exempting the University of Alaska from the
administrative adjudication provisions of the Administrative
Procedure Act; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/11/93 322 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/11/93 322 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, HES, JUDICIARY
03/20/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/20/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/27/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/27/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/29/93 821 (H) STA RPT 5DP 1DNP 1AM
03/29/93 822 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (UA) 3/29/93
04/02/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 210
SHORT TITLE: HIRING OF CHIEF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Kott
TITLE: "An Act relating to employment of chief school
administrators."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/10/93 590 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/10/93 590 (H) HES, FINANCE
03/12/93 629 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KOTT
03/22/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/22/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/22/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/01/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/02/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 195
SHORT TITLE: AUTHORIZING YOUTH COURTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SITTON,Ulmer,Willis,Foster,
Brown,B.Davis,Olberg,Porter
TITLE: "An Act authorizing youth courts by which to provide
for peer adjudication of minors who have allegedly committed
violations of state or municipal laws, renaming the
community legal assistance grant fund and amending
the purposes for which grants may be made from that fund in
order to provide financial assistance for organization and
initial operation of youth courts, and relating to young
adult advisory panels in the superior court."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/03/93 519 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/03/93 519 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/12/93 628 (H) COSPONSOR(S): WILLIS, FOSTER,
BROWN
03/12/93 628 (H) COSPONSOR(S): B.DAVIS, OLBERG
03/19/93 716 (H) COSPONSOR(S): PORTER
03/24/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/31/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/01/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/02/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-57, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m., noted
members present and announced the calendar. He brought
SB 53 to the table.
SB 53: ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS
Number 018
CHAIR BUNDE noted that a notice of reconsideration had been
given on the bill on the previous day, April 1, 1993, and
invited any further discussion on the bill. Hearing none,
he declared that SB 53 had PASSED FROM THE COMMITTEE WITH
INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
CHAIR BUNDE brought HB 148 to the table and invited the
sponsor to speak to the bill.
HB 148: EXEMPT UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA FROM APA PROCEDURES
Number 028
REP. GENE THERRIAULT testified as PRIME SPONSOR of HB 148.
He said the need for the bill had arisen from court cases.
He said the adjudication procedures were not designed for
student or employee grievances, but for grievances against
state boards and commissions. Student and employee
grievance procedures traditionally involve several levels of
peer review, with several appeal options, he said. He read
his sponsor statement, which is on file, which said that
requiring APA (Administrative Procedure Act) procedures for
university grievances would be very costly.
(Rep. Olberg arrived at 3:14 p.m.)
Number 082
MIKE KELLY, A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF REGENTS FOR THE
UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA, testified in Juneau in support of
HB 148. He cited the cost of formal outside hearings on
everything from parking citation appeals to student
discipline to faculty or employee grievances. He said
legislation passed in 1977 was never intended to cover those
kinds of issues, and contained intent language leaving to
the university the management of the university. He said
the APA process can take months. He said adding the extra
layer of due process would cost the state $250,000 per year.
He said due process was already available for such
grievances.
Number 119
CAROLYNE WALLACE, AN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT TO THE DEAN OF
AGRICULTURE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA FAIRBANKS, testified
via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of HB 148. She
said she had been on the university grievance committee for
eight years. She agreed with the previous two testifiers,
saying the APA was not intended to apply to UAF and that the
university already had an adequate grievance process. She
said the university did not need an expensive, time-
consuming grievance procedure.
Number 138
BONNIE WILLIAMS, PRESIDENT OF THE STATEWIDE ADMINISTRATION
ASSEMBLY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA, AND DIRECTOR OF
ADVANCED COLLEGE TUITION, testified via teleconference in
support of HB 148. She said that since the lawsuit that put
the university into its current situation, the university
had been deprived of a reasonable and speedy grievance
procedure. In times of tight budgets, she said, use of the
APA grievance procedure would mean cutting employee
positions and reducing programs.
Number 172
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no further testimony, closed public
testimony on HB 148 and invited discussion by the committee.
REP. B. DAVIS distributed copies of an amendment to HB 148
and moved the amendment, which she said would delay the
effective date of the bill until such time as both the
regents adopted a formal grievance procedure for employees
to which the university employees' general assembly had
agreed.
REP. VEZEY asked whether the motion had been made.
Number 206
REP. B. DAVIS said that she had.
REP. VEZEY objected to the motion, saying that when the same
amendment had been considered in the House State Affairs
Committee, it became clear that the amendment gave two
separate groups the right effectively to veto the
legislation. He recommended voting against the amendment.
CHAIR BUNDE invited Rep. B. Davis to speak to her amendment.
Number 220
REP. B. DAVIS denied that the amendment would allow two
sides an effective veto. She noted that the regents wanted
a speedy resolution of grievances. She said that the
amendment would ensure that the needs of all people involved
would be met. She said that some people felt they would
have no recourse for their grievances absent the procedures
established in the APA.
REP. THERRIAULT said the amendment was unnecessary as UAF
had a functional grievance procedure in place before the
court instructed it to use the APA procedures, and the
university would resume its normal grievance procedures with
passage of HB 148.
Number 259
CHAIR BUNDE asked if there was a general grievance procedure
for UAF, and was answered that there was.
REP. OLBERG restated Rep. Vezey's concern about granting
outside organizations the power effectively to veto
legislation by not agreeing to a grievance procedure.
Number 270
CHAIR BUNDE expressed concern that the university general
assembly could use its approval of a grievance procedure,
which would save the university $250,000, to hold the
university captive.
REP. B. DAVIS said she understood that there were people who
were unhappy with the current grievance procedure. She
asked if the federation of teachers had reached a
satisfactory agreement with the university. She said she
would withdraw her amendment if she could be sure all of the
university's bargaining units would support HB 148.
Number 300
WENDY REDMAN, VICE PRESIDENT FOR UNIVERSITY RELATIONS FOR
THE UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA, testified in Juneau on HB 210.
She said she could give Rep. B. Davis that assurance. She
said all university employees in collective bargaining units
were covered by the state PARA ?? Act, which defines
grievance procedures in collective bargaining agreements.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if anyone would be left out of that act.
MS. REDMAN answered that most university employees were not
covered by collective bargaining, by their own choice, but
were covered by an internal grievance procedure in operation
at the university for 75 years.
Number 313
REP. B. DAVIS asked the pitfalls of her amendment.
MS. REDMAN said that the pitfalls had already been stated by
others at the meeting. She said that while she and the
university employees appreciated the intent of the
amendment, it was unnecessary. She said that most employees
were eager to return to a university grievance policy which
had received a year's work by the grievance council, and
which was about to be implemented when the court decision
concerning the APA was delivered. She said the policy had
recently been distributed in anticipation of the passage of
HB 148, in hopes it could be placed into effect at the June
board meeting.
Number 332
REP. B. DAVIS asked why, if what Ms. Redman said was true,
would anyone think that the university board or general
assembly would try to block the bill.
MS. REDMAN said that the objections to the amendment were
not with its intent, but with the technical problems dealing
with whether the legislature could grant other organizations
power over the effective date of the bill.
REP. G. DAVIS said he had initially supported the amendment,
but opposed it after additional research and discussion with
Ms. Redman. He said it leaves it up to one or two people to
delay the bill's effective date, for legitimate or
illegitimate reasons.
Number 350
REP. VEZEY said personnel grievances were only a small part
of the scope of the APA. He thought the APA addressed
boards and commissions and quasi-judicial responsibilities,
but, according to a court decision, the APA procedures
applied to university procedures great and small. He said
one person had successfully avoided paying a parking ticket
by asking for an APA hearing.
REP. B. DAVIS said Rep. Vezey's point was well-taken and she
believed it was true that not all employee grievances were
intended to be heard under APA procedures. She said that
those people who had expected their grievances to be heard
under APA procedures would need extra time to find out how
their grievances would be addressed in a different process.
After noting that the university general assembly would meet
in June 1993, and that HB 148 would take effect immediately,
she withdrew her amendment and expressed her intention to
introduce another amendment to change the effective date.
Number 378
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the bill still had to be signed by
the governor before taking effect.
REP. B. DAVIS observed that the bill could be passed by the
legislature and be signed by the governor and take effect.
CHAIR BUNDE noted that while that would not be typical, it
would be possible. He asked whether Rep. B. Davis had
withdrawn her amendment.
Number 384
REP. B. DAVIS indicated that she had. She then moved an
amendment changing the effective date of HB 148 to June 30,
1993. She noted that even without an effective date, the
bill would take effect 90 days after it was signed by the
governor.
REP. TOOHEY asked if a 90-day delay would be harmful.
REP. THERRIAULT said he did not think there was a need for a
delay. He noted that the bill allowed any grievance process
which had started under APA to be completed under APA, and a
delay in the effective date would leave a large window of
opportunity for many grievances to be started and completed
under the costly APA process.
CHAIR BUNDE noted the motion and asked if there were any
objections.
REP. VEZEY objected.
CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote. He noted that Rep.
Brice was on-line from Fairbanks.
REP. BRICE greeted the committee members and encouraged them
to proceed.
CHAIR BUNDE repeated his call for a vote on the motion.
Those voting yes were Reps. B. Davis and Nicholia. Those
voting no were Reps. G. Davis, Vezey, Kott, Olberg, Toohey
and Bunde. The motion failed 2-6. Chair Bunde asked the
will of the committee.
REP. VEZEY moved passage of HB 148 with individual
recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for objections and, hearing none, declared
HB 148 passed with individual recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE then brought HB 210 to the table.
HB 210: HIRING OF CHIEF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS
Number 432
TOM ANDERSON, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REP. TERRY MARTIN, PRIME
SPONSOR, presented and distributed to the committee an
amendment to HB 210.
REP. BRICE, speaking by teleconference, asked the chair to
read the amendment or to have a copy of the amendment faxed
to him.
CHAIR BUNDE said the amendment would amend page 1, line 9,
of the bill to delete the numeral "500" and insert the
numeral "1,000."
REP. BRICE indicated that he was satisfied with that
information.
CHAIR BUNDE invited Mr. Anderson to speak to the amendment.
MR. ANDERSON said that since he and Rep. Martin last
presented HB 210, they had tried to find other ways to
change the bill, and might not have changed it to the liking
of all representatives. He said that Rep. Martin felt there
were problems with the way chief school administrators were
paid and the way they dealt with their administrative
payrolls and retirement benefits. He said Rep. Martin felt
it might be better to amend the bill to raise the number of
students that would be the minimum needed to require a chief
school administrator. He said there were advantages to
having smaller school districts share administrators.
Number 284
REP. NICHOLIA voiced disagreement with Mr. Anderson's
assertions, saying the bill would not save money. She said
that rural school districts had large expenses, including
the costs for charter flights for administrators and board
members. She mentioned the benefits of having
administrators on-site.
REP. TOOHEY asked whether administrators could still travel
among the different schools in a district under HB 210.
MR. ANDERSON answered yes. He also acknowledged that
superintendents do travel around rural districts and would
have to continue to do so under the bill. He pointed out
the close proximity of some school districts and said it
would not hurt them to have a single superintendent.
Number 512
CHAIR BUNDE noted that Rep. Brice had received an illegal
(legal) opinion from the legislative Legal Services which
indicated that committee members participating in a meeting
by teleconference could vote on amendments but not on the
final action on a bill.
REP. OLBERG asked if an amendment had been moved and
objected to.
CHAIR BUNDE answered no, the amendment had been offered. He
asked the pleasure of the committee.
REP. TOOHEY moved the amendment.
REP. OLBERG objected.
CHAIR BUNDE noted the objection and called for a roll call
vote. Those voting yes were Reps. Kott, Toohey and Bunde.
Those voting no were Reps. Vezey, Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia
and G. Davis. The motion failed 3-5.
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee was then considering
the bill without amendments. He invited Carl Rose to
testify and noted that there were people waiting to testify
from Kuspuk, Anchorage and Petersburg.
Number 543
CARL ROSE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATION OF ALASKA
SCHOOL BOARDS, testified in Juneau in opposition to HB 210,
saying that the association supported local control of
school districts. He said that school boards have legal
responsibility for all of a district's activities and have
large legal exposure. He said school boards are elected to
establish policy under the direction of their local
communities, and school administrators are hired to
administer the execution of such policies. He said
superintendents in smaller districts also serve as teachers
or principals, as opposed to superintendents in larger
school districts, where superintendents are more like chief
executive officers. He said that having one administrator
could not carry out the spirit of the policies established
by five different school boards. He said school districts
needed an administrator on-site to deal with negotiation,
grievances, policies, budgeting and other issues. He said
first-class cities which tax for schools, or communities
which qualified for PL-874 funds in lieu of taxes, therefore
had a right to have their own school districts. He offered
to work with the sponsor or committee to address the issue
of educational service delivery and administration, saying
that all issues had not been addressed. He said he was not
sure of the bill's objective, and said that there would be
other ways to save money.
Number 593
REP. TOOHEY noted that there was a push on for the state to
get its spending in line with its income. She said that
bills such as HB 210 were an effort to cut the budget. She
asked Mr. Rose to come back with other suggestions as to how
to cut government expenses because the state was not going
to find another Prudhoe Bay.
TAPE 93-57, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. ROSE said he would be glad to do so, as he had many
recommendations, though some people might not like them.
REP. TOOHEY reminded him that the bottom line was that the
state was running out of money.
Number 006
CHAIR BUNDE said he would support the bill if it saved
money. He said he was interested in getting more money in
the classroom and allowing less money to leak into other
costs along the way to the classroom. He said there were 11
schools which spent more than 10 percent of their budgets on
administrative payroll, compared to 3 percent in the
Anchorage School District. He noted one school district
which served fewer than 500 students but which had 27 people
on an administrative payroll earning $1 million in a
district with less than 500 students. He said the committee
did not hate small school districts, but noted that the
state just did not have as much money available as it once
did. He apologized if he appeared adversarial, but said his
intention was to ensure more money reached classrooms. He
said the state took many steps to cut costs, such as holding
meetings by teleconference, and suggested remote school
districts should try such methods. He acknowledged that
school boards needed to be accountable to local communities,
but said superintendents are simply employees and could be
shared by more than one district.
Number 068
MR. ROSE said he might have questions about the figures
Chair Bunde had cited, and expressed a preference for using
his own figures. He said that some of the information he
had provided in response to questions from Rep. Martin
involved executive-level and director-level positions, not
administrative positions.
REP. G. DAVIS said he did not support the bill, but did
support its aim of making the educational system aware of
the need for changes. He said that if schools could always
get whatever money they wanted from the state, there would
be no possibility of change. He said if people knew the
days of unlimited money were gone, they might be more likely
to examine the operations of the educational system. He
said he doubted whether Alaska 2000 addressed that issue, as
it was likely to result in more educational spending. He
said he still had faith in the system and the ability of the
educational community to abide by the demands of the public.
CHAIR BUNDE invited those at remote sites to testify by
teleconference.
Number 125
LEO MORGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE KUSPUK SCHOOL DISTRICT,
testified via teleconference from Aniak in opposition to
HB 210. He doubted that a single superintendent could serve
the districts of Iditarod or Kuspuk as they were too large
and diverse. He said individual school sites feel neglected
within these large school districts. He said linking more
than one together would raise too many problems. He said
the districts would resist the bill, and predicted many
lawsuits if HB 210 passed.
CHAIR BUNDE said he had been to Aniak, Bethel, Stony River,
Sleetmute and Red Devil and he thought he had some feeling
for conditions and diversity. He said he felt that the
difference between Aniak and Bethel was no greater than that
between Eagle River and Girdwood, or between Spenard and
Muldoon, which are all served by one school district and one
superintendent. He said he understood the diversity of
different areas, but asked him to understand the need for
economy.
REP. NICHOLIA noted that Girdwood and Eagle River were on
the road system, while Bethel was not, and therefore had
higher expenses.
Number 167
REP. VEZEY pointed out that there were some school districts
that covered hundreds of miles.
REP. NICHOLIA pointed out that the Yukon Flats and Yukon
Koyukuk school districts were in regions.
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no further requests to testify, closed
public testimony on HB 210 and asked the will of the
committee.
Number 186
REP. TOOHEY asked Mr. Rose to return in a week or two to
discuss revisions to the bill with the sponsor and possibly
with a subcommittee of the HESS Committee.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Rose if he had time and interest in
such a meeting.
MR. ROSE replied, "I would do so willingly."
Number 200
CHAIR BUNDE appointed a subcommittee of the HESS Committee,
consisting of Rep. Toohey as chair, with Rep. Nicholia and
Rep. G. Davis as members. He asked Rep. Toohey to convene a
meeting at a suitable time such that it could report back to
the HESS Committee within a week, and invited anyone else
who wanted to attend to do so. He also asked that Rep.
Martin be notified of those plans.
REP. B. DAVIS said the state needed to have more efficient
school operations, but said she did not think HB 210 would
save money. She suggested volunteer workers might help make
changes. She also said that one superintendent could not
serve four or five school districts at a time, and that
superintendents did not last more than three years even when
they were responsible for one school district.
CHAIR BUNDE brought HB 195 to the table and noted that the
teleconferenced portion of the meeting was at an end.
HB 195: AUTHORIZING YOUTH COURTS
CHAIR BUNDE noted that it was decided at an earlier hearing
on the bill that there was a need for some adjustment to the
bill. He opened public testimony on the bill and, noting no
one wishing to testify, closed public testimony on the bill
and opened committee discussion.
REP. VEZEY passed out a blank committee substitute (CS) of
the bill, which he said included all amendments adopted at
the previous meeting, including the creation of a new
juvenile justice grant fund. He said that, as the bill
carried no fiscal note and contained no appropriation to the
fund, the department would not be able to adopt regulations
to carry out the purpose of the act. He said Legal Services
advised him that the bill had to contain such an explicit
denial, but he questioned the need for inclusion of such a
denial.
Number 285
REP. OLBERG recalled that there had been some disagreement
on the bill at the earlier meeting. He said he had had no
problems with the original bill and asked if the committee
had yet adopted the committee substitute.
CHAIR BUNDE answered no.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if there was testimony on the CS.
CHAIR BUNDE answered no.
Number 298
REP. B. DAVIS moved adoption of the CS as a working draft of
HB 195.
REP. OLBERG objected.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for a roll call vote.
There followed a moment of confused discussion in which a
point of order was called but not acknowledged.
REP. B. DAVIS asked the sponsor of the bill or his
representative to speak to the CS version.
Number 302
PAULA TERREL, AIDE TO REP. SITTON, testified on HB 95. She
said that Rep. Sitton did not object to the CS, though he
felt that the substitution of the term "person" for
"nonprofit" was slightly unwieldy. She said he thought it
was less likely that individual people would start youth
courts than nonprofit corporations. Ms. Terrel stated, "But
that they are included, and the department still may adopt
regulations for this, and in view of that, he doesn't have a
problem with the separation of the funds. He accepts it."
CHAIR BUNDE asked if Rep. Sitton had reacted to the fact
that the CS version did not include any money to implement
the bill.
MS. TERREL said that Rep. Sitton would have liked to have
the money, but if it was not there, it was not there. She
commented that if someone in the Finance Committee wanted to
amend it ...
Number 322
REP. OLBERG said that he did not see the necessity of
creating a new grant fund or eliminating the old grant fund.
He said the original proposal would have converted the
community legal assistance grant fund into the legal
assistance and juvenile justice grant fund. He said that
the bill now created the juvenile justice grant fund, but
gave it no money. He questioned the necessity of that
action.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if it would be possible to include new
language that would allow money to be transferred from one
of the separated funds to another, now that the co-mingling
of funds issue had been addressed.
MS. TERREL said she had checked with the Department of
Community and Regional Affairs and had learned that there
was no money available in the legal assistance fund.
Number 338
REP. B. DAVIS asked Rep. Vezey to explain again why he
preferred the use of the term "person" instead of
"nonprofit."
REP. VEZEY repeated that the legal definition of "person"
encompassed almost all of those organizations that could
provide a youth courts, including nonprofit corporations,
but not limiting it to nonprofit corporations.
Number 356
REP. B. DAVIS asked if it was possible to make a simple
amendment instead.
REP. VEZEY noted that an organization did not have to be
nonprofit, or a corporation, to provide public service. He
said the legal protections formerly provided by the
corporate structure had been weakened over the last 20
years, and there were reasons not to use such a structure.
Number 369
CHAIR BUNDE said using the word person provided the greatest
possible flexibility in the establishment of a youth court.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if the bill contained a definition of
the term "person."
CHAIR BUNDE said the definition was contained in statute.
Number 375
REP. VEZEY said the term "person" was defined in AS 01.10.60
paragraph 8. He said virtually no person or group was
excluded by that definition.
CHAIR BUNDE said that the definition might include the
Alaska Native Brotherhood.
REP. VEZEY said that a political subdivision of the state
was not a nonprofit corporation.
REP. TOOHEY asked Rep. Vezey if there were any other changes
to the bill contained in the CS other than the two changes
he mentioned, those being the creation of a new grant fund
and the substitution of the term "person" for "nonprofit."
REP. VEZEY said that to his knowledge those were the only
changes.
REP. TOOHEY commented that there had been changes to Section
4 to include municipalities instead of just cities.
REP. VEZEY said that this change had been made by his
office.
REP. TOOHEY asked if another amendment had not deleted from
the bill lines 4-7 on page 4. She said that if he could
show her that those were the only changes, and that the
sponsor was happy with the changes, she would believe the
bill was a good piece of legislation.
REP. VEZEY said that the deletion she mentioned had not been
accepted by the committee, nor had it been included in the
CS.
Number 409
REP. OLBERG withdrew his objection to adopting the CS
version of HB 195.
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objection, then declared that the
committee had adopted the CS version of HB 195 as a working
draft. He noted that the next committee of referral was the
House Finance Committee.
Number 412
REP. TOOHEY moved passage of CSHB 195 with individual
recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for objections and hearing none, declared
that CSHB 195 had passed with individual recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE adjourned the meeting at 4:24 p.m.
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